Subject: Re: DASC Scope
From: Ron Waxman (r.waxman@computer.org)
Date: Wed Nov 12 2003 - 19:08:47 PST
Well said Michael McNamara.
Ron Waxman
At 09:23 PM 11/12/03, Michael McNamara wrote:
>-- On Nov 12 2003 at 13:28, John Michael Williams sent a message:
> > To: stds-dasc@eda.org
> > Subject: "Re: DASC Scope"
> > Hi All.
> >
> > Evan Lavelle wrote:
> > > Just on the issue of taking everything and letting the market decide:
> > >
> > > Brophy, Dennis wrote:
> > >
> > >> The DASC could do the same and allow any and all comers to standardize
> > >> and leave to the market those standards they wish to use.
> > >
> > >
> > > The IEEE does have a history of allowing manufacturers to open
> > > their languages (and bus interfaces, and whatever) by taking them
> > > on as IEEE standards. But what about languages which are already
> > > open? The two obvious cases are SystemVerilog and SystemC. Does
> > > it promote the ends of the IEEE to take on the extra work
> > > required to turn an existing "standard" into an IEEE "standard"?
> >
> > In my opinion, no. If the open standard already works
> > well, then inviting a lot of diverse IEEE opinions to
> > ballot on it probably will just add entropy.
> >
> > Preemptive standardization, with no preexisting dispute,
> > doesn't advance anything.
> >
> > IEEE standardization should be to resolve possible
> > engineering disputes or differences of opinion, not
> > just to consume working or balloting time to author
> > new stuff in the name of IEEE.
> >
> > If several variants of SystemC or SystemVerilog evolved
> > (literally), and differences created incompatibilities, then IEEE
> > should consider resolving such differences by publishing a
> > standard.
> > John
> > jwill@AstraGate.net
> > John Michael Williams
>
>Actually, it has been my experience that IEEE standardization of what
>was up to then a de-facto standard, or a standard supported by a
>consortia, has indeed been very beneficial to the industry and to the
>users.
>
>The Verilog language was a proprietary property of Gateway Design, and
>later Cadence Design, from 1983 until 1990.
>
>Then OVI was established as a consortia to sponsor the language as an
>open standard, and while it met with some success, it wasn't until the
>language was transfered to the IEEE in 1993 that the traction really
>picked up. The IEEE processes required complete disclosure of
>functionality, and mandated a process that was easy for all to
>understand and participate in The IEEE process had been followed by
>many groups previously. The IEEE process made it far easier for we at
>Chronologic to be confident that the tool we were implementing was
>compatible with a standard that had legs.
>
>The new IEEE ALF standard has similar roots; starting as a consortia
>owned standard (Accellera), which then transferred it to the IEEE and
>now IEEE 1603 ALF has been approved (9/11/03) and is gaining more and
>more acceptance.
>
>Based on recent press releases, it is that case that Accellera indeed
>intends to contribute System Verilog to the IEEE 1364 working group,
>enabling resolution of that standard with 1364, as you are
>encouraging.
>
>I feel that our charter as the Design Automation Standardization
>Committee should continue to be to serve as the sponsor of record for
>all the major languages useful for designing electronic systems. We
>indeed should use caution, and consider carefully before pre-emptively
>sponsoring for standardization a language which has not yet developed
>a significant following. Such tasks are better left to individual
>companies, or consortia. However, once some momentum has built up
>around a format, the IEEE standardization path brings transparency of
>process and equality of access to influence direction, which can be
>lacking when a format is company or consortia owned.
>
>"We don't make languages, we make them Standards" (apologies to BASF)
>
> Michael McNamara, Chairman, IEEE 1364 Working Group <mac@verilog.com>
> Sr VP Technology, Verisity Design <mac@verisity.com>
> W 650-934-6888 F 650-934-6893 M 408-930-6875
Ronald Waxman r.waxman@computer.org
EDA Standards Consulting voice: (+1)(703) 620-2117
Principal Scientist at UVa, retired mobile: (+1) (703) 867-8075
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======================
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